Rehearsal Arts
Advertise on ChoralNet 
ChoralNet logo
The mission of the ACDA is to inspire excellence in choral music through education, performance, composition, and advocacy.

Hire pros, use 'readings', or midi? Trying to make a sample CD...

I'm an emerging composer hoping to interest people in my music. I have midi versions of my pieces, via Finale, but they can't rival live music. I have recorded readings of my works- but these have many mistakes.  Do I need to invest in hiring professional singers? I want to make a sample CD to promote my music to conductors and church music directors. What matters to you more- the quality of the score or the option of being able to hear it through a recording?  Do you tend to disregard scores that don't have audio samples? Is it better to send no audio at all than a reading with mistakes? Is imperfect midi better than nothing? ~ Heather
Replies (13): Threaded | Chronological
on June 6, 2012 10:08am
It depends a lot on what type of conductor you're trying to reach. Are you writing 2-part songs with piano aimed at elementary school students? Difficult 8-part a cappella motets? Large works with orchestra? Pop-style church anthems? Is your compositional style mainly straightforward melodies and harmonies, or do you use atmospheric or aleatoric effects which might be hard to imagine from the printed page?
 
Conductors in general have to have good imaginations, so they should be able to transcend the mechanical nature of a MIDI file and/or overlook wrong notes in a performance recording in order to imagine what the piece should sound like (I'm assuming by "mistakes" you mean occasional wrong notes; if the performance included consistently bad intonation or bad vocal production, or if the recording quality is terrible, I wouldn't use it). I wouldn't bother to create professional recordings unless your target market is pretty inexperienced conductors (admittedly a big market) or you write in a pop style of some sort.
 
If you're self-marketing, having professional recordings on your website might give you a more professional appearance, but how much that would translate into increased sales is hard to guess.
 
Be aware, though, that many conductors will use your recordings as a rehearsal aid for their singers, so if they contain wrong notes that will be a problem for everyone. Computer-generated files are more useful for that purpose. If the conductor doesn't have the instinct to make the performance musical rather than mechanical, no amount of recordings is really going to help.
on June 6, 2012 3:17pm
Hello Allen.
 
Thank you for your time in responding here.
 
I am mainly writing SATB choral anthems - often with solos or divided parts, usually with piano or organ accompaniment, and sometimes with additional instruments ranging from easy to high intermediate levels.  My style is tonal, somewhat modal or neo-romantic, always lyrical, and the notes/score should express it all- nothing off the page is required.
 
There are wrong notes on each piece I am lucky enough to have 'readings' of.  Problems include entrances which aren't exact and patches where intonatino isn't so hot- though these usually sort themselves out.  But where midi captures pitch and entrances, I can't make Finale produce expressive tempo changes. I am thinking about how to get a better sound but don't have a lot of money for the project. I also don't know if it's okay to create a CD which includes a mix of readings and midi recordings...
 
My target audience for these recordings is a conductor looking to program contemporary lyrical sacred music for worship or concert hall.  I consider practice tracks a different project and can make these with midi and let conductors know it is available iif desired.
 
Thank you for your advice! ~ Heather
on June 14, 2012 9:19am
Hello Heather, and Welcome!  I am an "emerging" composer also, and share your concerns.  I use Sibelius (v. 6), and am not at all familiar with Finale, but I will share what I do in Sibelius to produce decent-sounding (at least to my ears) playbacks and mp3s of same to place on my website, and then you can see if perhaps Finale has similar functions that you could use, if you are not yet an expert Finale user (I am still learning many of the finer points of Sibelius myself).  After reading this, you might post a query in the Composers Community here and ask those who use Finale if they could give you some tips on how to improve the sound of your playback by tweaking this or that. 
 
Although I am not a choir director, if I were one I would appreciate being able to hear a decent "virtual" audio version of a piece rather than hear nothing at all, as I am not very good at just looking at a score and being able to translate all the written stuff into audio stuff in my brain...  I can't hear a piece just by looking at it, but truly wish I had that gift.
 
So, when you say "I can't make Finale produce expressive tempo changes" I wonder if Finale might work the way Sibelius does, in that you could place a series of metronome marks in appropriate places and then "hide" them, so they are visible only to you on screen while you work on the piece, but not on the final printout of the score.  I do this when I want an accelerando or a ritardando in a phrase but can't get it quite right using Sibelius's semi-automatic choices. 
 
In addition, here are some other things I can do in Sibelius that might be available in some form in Finale:
 
In the line of functions at the top of my screen, I go into "Play" and then into "Performance" and then choose "Concert Hall" or "Cathedral" and then also check the "Reverb" box.  This makes the playback just a bit echo-ey and prettier, I think.  Most "normal" playback sounds much too staccato to my ears, very unvoice-like, not nearly smooth enough.  This helps.
 
Using the "Mixer" function, I crank up the "Reverb" and "Chorus" dials on all the human voice parts to the highest levels, and fiddle with getting both dials just right for any instrument parts, and I also fiddle with the volume on each part to get the playback to sound the way I want it to.  I've found recently that the volume setting on violas, especially, often needs to be turned down, as in my system the viola's sound can easily overpower the other human and instrument voices, even when set at the same playback volume level as the other "voices".
 
When I purchased my Sibelius program three or so years ago, I also purchased an "add on" program called, I think, "Choral Sounds."  This gives me a much wider option of "voices" to choose from when I begin a piece, more "oohs" and "ahhs" and "ohs" and "chorus" sounds for human voices.  Sibelius does a decent job, I think, with instrumental playback.  No electronic voice sounds totally realistic, but they come close enough.  Oh, and I also purchased a decent set of speakers for my computer system that includes a subwoofer, and that makes a HUGE difference in being able to hear the low notes. 
 
When I finally get the playback of a piece sounding the way I want it to, then I export it (which creates a WAV file), then convert that WAV file into an mp3 file for free by using iTunes.  I add the mp3 file to my website right underneath the review PDF of the piece.  Maybe you could listen to the piece I just uploaded to my website yesterday, the first piece I've added any accompaniment to, called "A Single Feather," which is SAT/SAA & String Quartet, just to hear what the final virtual audio sounds like, and if it sounds "good enough" to your ears:  www.choralmelodies.com
 
I personally can't afford to do anything fancier or use real voices (and my own voice is contralto with a fairly limited range), so I've figured out the hard way, mostly by trial and error, what I can do with the equipment I have. 
on June 6, 2012 10:35am
Heather:  Last question first:  yes, imperfect is better than nothing.  MIDI has the disadvantage of depending on the sound capabilities of the computer that plays it back.  Recording an mp3 file (or an .aiff file and then converting it to mp3, as you have to do in Sibelius--I don't know about Finale) gives you an actual recording, not just a set of on-and-off signals, using the sounds from YOUR computer, over which you have a lot more control.
 
Either, of course, can be technically perfect but musically unrealistic.  And yes, some conductors will be turned off by that, because they won't be able to conceive it sounding any other way.  And those are probably the same conductors who can't "hear" a piece just by studying the score.  On the other hand, listening to a reading by school or amateur singers is vocally realistic, but as you say, can't possibly be a finished performance, and inaccuracies will turn off ither conductors.
 
But there's a third way that can get you a good demo without having to hire a full choir, and many publishers have been using it for at LEAST the last 40 years to make demos for their own publications.  At one time I did a number of these recording sessions, with only ONE singer on a part.  You have to hire good singers who are superb sigtreaders and not just pretty voices, because in recording, "time is money."  And while anyone can record directly to computer these days, you really need access to professional equipment and a recording engineer who knows what he or she is doing (in other words to a decent recording studio), so this won't get you FREE demos, but it will give you better quality demos at the lowest possible cost if that's your goal.  And by overtracking voices you don't make the "choir" sound bigger, but you can sort of hide the fact that there is only one singer on each part.
 
But if you're just starting out and don't have a ton of money to spend, then make your MIDI or mp3 demos and, as you become better known and can afford it, start replacing them.  As someone recently put it, "you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had!"  So just plug in "choir" rather than "army."
All the best,
John
on June 7, 2012 6:56am
Hi Heather,
 
It's a problem we all face. Three suggestions:
 
1. Check out the Virtual Choir community on ChoralNet. Jack Senzig has worked long and hard to set this up. Eventually you should be able to listen to audition MP3s of singers who volunteer for this, pick a set of them, send them your score .pdf and ask them to record their part separately while listening to MIDI scratch tracks that you provide. Then you can mix the individual parts they send you into a "virtual choir" demo.
 
I provided the audition piece at Jack's request; it is one for which I did happen to have a nice, well-rehearsed concert performance recording.
 
2. Check out the Composer's Choir. composerschoir(a)gmail.com . They are not cheap but they do good work; at least one composer has used a recording they made to win a prize in a competition. Dan is very professional and will work with you.
 
3. When you do get recordings you consider good enough to share, join the Composers of Choral Music community here and post them to the Showcase, another Jack Senzig brainstorm.
 
Best of luck,
 
David Avshalomov
on June 7, 2012 7:27am
As the others have already said, go with what you can realistically afford. One issue with Midi is its lack of expression. Hearing the human voice on a recording can help people connect with your piece in a different way, even if it's just for learning purposes.

If you're interested in John's suggestion of hiring singers, there are two services out there that have experience in recording new works -ChoralTracks (http://www.choraltracks.com) and Composers Choir (http://www.composerschoir.net/). I personally have not used either service but the examples on the sites are very clean and clean, especially Choraltracks.

Dan

on June 7, 2012 10:04am
I for one find visual score samples more valuable than audio samples, but I am shopping for a church choir with very real limitations in terms of range and divisi.  Do you already provide score samples?  I find midi samples and poorly presented audio samples a turn-off. 
 
Julie
on June 13, 2012 7:55am
Thanks for your input, Julie.
 
Personally, I also prefer scores to recordings. I feel that to b ecompetitive today that composers produce downloadable MP3s in addition to their scores and making a good one can be challenging. 
 
I do have some pieces, without divisi, for choirs with modest ranges- if you are interested...
 
In reading these responses I see that people are split; some like midi and some don't and some people prefer poor recordings to none. I agree with you, I find poor recordings a turn-off, which is why I am hesitant to use them.
 
Heather
on June 7, 2012 12:50pm
If you are sufficient in music recording and technology, and are good enough at singing, you could try multi-tracking yourself or your frined(s).
 
Although I rarely do this now, it has a great benefit which is to have an acceptable or OK-level recording pretty fast like a day or two after finishing the piece for very low cost (or almost nothing), if you know what you are doing.
on June 13, 2012 7:58am
This may be a good way to go. Thanks for your suggestions Kentaro.
 
What are the approximate rates for recording a song in this way? Please include fees for paying the singer and for recording and mastering in your estimate.
Thanks! - Heather
on June 14, 2012 6:35am
Mmm... It is very difficult to tell the rate because I have only done these recording for myself. If you are looking for that level of recording quality, I am guessing that unless you are the one doing the recording and enginnering, and the most (or the half of) siniging, the cost might end up higher than normal small recording sessions.
on June 14, 2012 1:51pm
Just a couple more thoughts (from a fellow conductor and buyer of a fair amount of sacred choral music)...
 
* Just my own thinking, but a poor vocal recording is very hard for me to get past unless I already know the piece or someone I respect has recommended it.  I'm sure there have been exceptions, but if I don't know the composer or his/her work I might not dig that deeply - wrong notes and unpleasant sound generate an impression - possibly unfair - that composer might not be that great.
 pros
* Please be very, very careful if you end up hiring singers ... hire **choral pros ** not necessarily the biggest operatic guns you know. An undisciplined voice that might sing a great Tosca will still make your reording unpleasant.
 
* There are some *very* fine composers who have midi demos on their web sites for some of their music - it's nothing to be ashamed of. You'd be in good company. I suspect they refuse to put a demo on that doesn't present the piece at its best - and these are established composers.
 
* Are you in touch with people who have good choirs, offering them some free music, or whatever if they would consider programming your piece (and recording it)
 
* Finale - not sure how old your copy is, or if you know how to set up the excellent digital sounds that are inluded with the software for the past several years. There's a world of diference between "play back through midi" vs. "play back through VST".  Do your note entry with it set to midi, but then set up your sounds with the great samples in VST.  You CAN put in tempo variatiions and nuances and hide them in the score as has been mentioned.  And the playback is really very good and as realistic as, say, a good digital church organ vs. a good pipe organ.
 
Opinion here, but I don't care for the synthesized oohs and aahs even in finale's VST samples. When I make rehearsal CD's for my choirs I set up the file with an instrument assigned to each voice. (I don't think I recommend this with a fully orhestrated piece, but if the accompaniment is keyboard it works great.)  For example, if I were presenting an SATB piece I might set midi up to be Sop-flute, Alto - clarinet, Tenor - Horn, Bass - Bassoon.... I try to contrast the instrumental colors so singers can hear their parts for rehearsal (but I also generate part-predominant versions for each part.) But you could experiment with all one family of instruments and see which you think suits your music better. If you enter articulations and breaths you will be very pleased with how musical it all sounds. (you can hide some of those markings in your sample score if you wish.)
 
And I certainly *don't* do this for anything but more difficult peices!  It takes some time. But if I were in your shoes, (and did not have access to excellent singers) I would do the above or my demo recordings.  
 
Dan Wagner
 
 
on June 17, 2012 5:38am
Printed scores! I know that theivery exists amongst our profession, but I prefer as complete a score to any sound sample. A complete and theft-proof score does it for me, much more than any sound sample, even professionally produced.
 
  • You must log in or register to be able to reply to this message.