On Apr 1, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Adam Beeken wrote:

> In this changing culture what experiences positive and negative have
> you had in these situations and do you have any wise words of
> comfort I
> may be able to pass along? Personally the worst I have observed and
> experienced concerning host families are some very funny stories.


If it's of any consolation, we (and many other boys choirs) do
homestays with boys age 10-14 all the time with few problems. Not to
say problems aren't possible, but the benefit has easily outweighed
the risk thus far. Boys always stay in pairs, ideally with families,
they have the phone numbers of the chaperones. I suspect your kids
have cell phones, so in that respect, it's even safer than in the
past, since you mention a changing world. In the past couple years
we've done homestays in the US and Hungary, and their experiences with
their host families are often the thing they remember most.


KPF


____________________________________
Kevin Fox
Founding Artistic Director
Pacific Boychoir Academy
410 Alcatraz Avenue
Oakland, CA 94609
kevinf(a)pacificboychoiracademy.org
www.pacificboychoiracademy.org

My alumni consistently list home stays as one of their favorite components of tour and it is a regular feature of our tours. Most recently, we did them in South Africa and they were one of the highlights. If you are using common sense (no child stays alone, etc), there is no reason for worry. Staying vigilant and concerned will help keep them safe.



Craig Denison
denisons4(a)me.com

At 10:14 AM -0700 4/1/09, Adam Beeken wrote:
>Dear Choral Talk:
> I am preparing to take a high school group on a tour at the end of
>this school year. As we have been making preparations, I have had a
>couple of students and some parents express concern about students
>staying in homes during the tour. In my personal experience of nearly
>twenty such tours as a participant and chaperone, I was never personally
>concerned with such arrangements-we would stay in groups of 2-5 choir
>members in the home of a person related to the church that we just
>performed at. Sometimes we would stay in a church building overnight and
>on extremely rare occasions in a hotel.
> In this changing culture what experiences positive and negative have
>you had in these situations and do you have any wise words of comfort I
>may be able to pass along? Personally the worst I have observed and
>experienced concerning host families are some very funny stories.

Hi, Adam. My experience has been at the college level, at which
students are SUPPOSED to be more mature (whether they actually are or
not!). My show ensemble did both community concerts (generally
fund-raisers for a local organization) and representing the
university at state/regional/national convention shows. In the
former case the students almost always stayed in host homes, while in
the latter it was more likely to involve hotels. We didn't go the
church route, although the choir at my undergrad school did.

For our students it was almost universally a VERY POSITIVE
EXPERIENCE! Of course we did our best to prepare them in advance,
and we had rather strict behavioral rules. The students were mostly
gregarious to begin with, both those in the cast and those in the
showband, and that helped, and generally they sat with their host
families and had lovely conversations (and lovely food after the
concert, in many cases!), and were delivered back to the bus on time
in the morning. We did try to house Bigs and Littles together, since
in theory the Big Brothers and Big Sisters knew enough to keep the
Rookies on the straight and narrow!

And the students themselves were not even aware of one of the most
important lessons they were learning, but I discussed this once with
the Personnel Director of a company we were singing for, and he said
that my students would have a HUGE advantage in employment interviews
because they were relaxed and communicative and easy to talk with,
while many of the college students he interviewed simply couldn't
open up and be themselves in an interview.

Oh, and we required "travel dress" so that we arrived at a show site
looking rather more professional than grungy college students. In
fact I had former students tell me that they hadn't had to buy new
wardrobe for their first jobs out of college because they already had
what they needed in their travel dress! (The choir at my undergrad
school required matched blazers and slacks/skirts, but that was back
in the '50s.)

I can't recall any negative occasions in relation to my students, but
on at least one occasion we had some young women staying in a host
home where they really shouldn't have been placed. They were adept
enough to stay out of trouble, but it was a little scary when we
heard about it the next day. On the other hand, we once stayed with
host families in a small West Virginia town not far from the Kentucky
border, and in the morning one of the girls got on the bus with very
big eyes, and told us, "We stayed with the Hatfields--the REAL ones!"

We did have occasional problems on the bus with PDA (Public Display
of Affection), which was discouraged because it tended to shut other
people out, but the student leaders themselves enforced the rules
about that. And yes, even back in the '80s the young ladies'
attitudes were quite different from those of the '50s when I was
growing up, and I'm sure they're different yet today. (Just saw a
report on TV last night about young, dumb students circulating nude
photos of themselves!) But I have to say that most of the marriages
generated within that group have stood the test of time, because they
got to know one another not just at their best, but also getting back
at 3 in the morning cranky and with advanced bus-face!!

Have realistic rules, enforce them, and give them the necessary
training before you ever set out.

John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:John.Howell(a)vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.

I do think that it is a cultural shift.  It is also my main pa
Adam,

I do think that it is a cultural shift.  It is also my main part of my job to take my college choir on tours (in fact two tours this year cover 21 total concerts and 5000+ miles).  Students are often surprised by the fact that they will be staying in peoples homes, when they are new to the ensemble, but often (as you stated) it is the stories of host family experiences that really make a tour fun and memorable.

Staying in host homes is what touring is about.  Meeting people and sharing your lives for an evening.  I can understand parents having safety issues, but what do they expect?  I would say this is what will happen.  Host families or stay home.

As an aside, I would also talk with host churches and work with them maybe placing certain students in homes that the church host is particularly sure will be a positive experience.  Even being able to say to a parent, I understand your concern and have been able to make sure in _______ that your kid will be staying at the principal's home.

I am glad you are touring with your choir and think it is truely one of the best team building and choir growing activities you can do!

Jason Thoms, DMA
Concordia College-New York
jason_thoms(a)yahoo.com

Adam,

I have taken our students on several tours like yours and stayed in
guest homes, just recently two weeks ago. This discussion did come up
with one family so we did two things. We gave the parents the option to
have their kids stay at the school/church with a chaperone if they
wished. We had two families decide to do that, but in the end they went
to homes with a chaperone, which was the other option. Anyone that has
parents that are uneasy can be assured that they will stay in homes with
a chaperone. In the end, the original family that had problems didn't
let their daughter go anyway, so...she will not be in the group next
year (this has happened two years in a row for this family and anything
we do isn't good enough).

You are right - many things that happen are funny. At the end of the
tour we give a Homecoming Concert for our parents and church and have a
time of sharing before the concert with each other. This allows the
students to talk about their host families and relate funny as well as
great things that happened to them.

I believe the ministry opportunities and what it does for the kids far
outweigh the risks. There is never a 100% guarantee that everything will
go right, but again, there's no guarantee that something will not happen
to those that stay home either. The parents of the girl that stayed home
had a concern because a youth worker in her church had done something
inappropriate. Things like this are more liable to happen at home in
familiar settings with familiar people then those on a tour.

Hopefully, you can convince them of their safety but there is a chance
that someone might not come around and not allow their child to go on
the tour.

Hope this helps!

Raymond Fitzsimmons
Fine Arts Director
Mt. Calvary Christian School
PO Box 508
629 Holly St.
Elizabethtown, PA 17022
717-367-1649
rfitzsimmons(a)mcchristianschool.com

At 5:44 PM -0700 4/1/09, R Fitzsimmons wrote:
>
>I believe the ministry opportunities and what it does for the kids far
>outweigh the risks. There is never a 100% guarantee that everything will
>go right, but again, there's no guarantee that something will not happen
>to those that stay home either.

Hi, Raymond, and you are absolutely correct. When I was teaching at
Indiana I directed a women's ensemble, The Belles of Indiana. For
one runout, one member asked to be excused from the show for what
seemed to be a fair and reasonable reason, I excused her, and we
covered for her in that show.

While we were gone, she was in a car wreck and was killed. It really
shook up the ensemble, as I'm sure you will understand, but we ended
up singing at her memorial service, and that helped the other members
deal with it. It was a hard lesson for everyone to learn, but
NOTHING in life is guaranteed. And of course it could have gone the
other way; it could have been our bus that was wrecked.

John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:John.Howell(a)vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.

Interesting.

I've never had that problem (which is strange considering how paranoid some parents are in this day and age) in my church school. In the 5 tours I've taken my kids on, we've mostly just stayed in schools and churches anyway simply because it is easier to organize and many of our congregations are too small to handle 30 kids. After having to deal with no sleep and lots of stress, I'm ready to start billeting with church families again! : )

However, I haven't had any concerns by parents or kids (accept for the occasional whining because they'd rather stay together than go to a stranger's place)about staying with people. I guess there is a bit more of a trust factor with people of your own faith (even though anything can happen anywhere with any people).

I guess you probably should do what you can to let them know you are being as safe as you can be and that you are taking every precaution for their child's safety. Parents have to realize, however, that nothing is ever really 'safe' and 'secure'. Anything can happen.

Darrell Corbel
Choral Director
Okanagan Adventist Academy

Darrell Corbel
d_corbel(a)hotmail.com

Dear Colleagues,

I have had some wonderful choir tour experiences through the middle and
high school choirs that I direct and the middle and high school church
choirs with which I assist.

In the church choir, our director has had us stay in camps the last
three years. It is much less expensive than staying in a hotel, and
usually there is ample meeting space for end-of-day debriefing and group
time. For what it's worth, we've used these types of facilities in
Homestead (Miami), FL, Denton (Dallas), TX, and Brookeville (Washington,
DC), MD. It seems that no matter where you go, there is almost always a
camp of some kind in the vicinity.

As a side note, the extra time it takes to get into and out of the city
each day (many camps are on the outskirts of the city proper) often
results in great bonding time for the students (as they chat, play
games, etc.). This year, we used that time to show excerpts from a
video (Crazy Love by Francis Chan--highly recommended to challenge
Christ-followers to re-examine and strengthen their faith) and encourage
students to study their Bibles. As a result, we had an extremely
focused and united group of students. This was one of the most
life-changing and inspirational choir tours I've ever experienced.

The following is a slightly off-topic look at a new spin my school has
placed on music trips. Though we are a non-sectarian, non-religious
school, we call our tours "Music Missions". The idea is that we use
music to provide community service to the communities we visit.

Two years ago, when our band director proposed the idea, I thought he
was crazy! These students would never go for something like that. But,
we proposed it, and the kids signed up in droves (96% participation the
first year, and very close to that the second year). I was obviously
selling our kids WAY short. I heard from several of the students that
our most recent trip was the best choir trip yet, and it didn't even
include a visit to an amusement park.

Our basic components are these:
Community Service project
College visit and/or clinic
A fine arts event
A few activities "just for fun"

We have sung for patients at the Vanderbilt Children's Hospital and
raised money to support the W.O. Smith Music School in Nashville, TN and
the Music Link Foundation (both excellent organizations that can use
your help). On the first trip, we sang a joint concert with the W.O.
Smith School that remains a highlight of several students' time at
Randolph. This past year, we sang several public concerts in the hopes
of raising awareness for the Music Link Foundation and starting a new
chapter of the organization in Savannah, GA.

We've toured several college campuses and received feedback from
nationally-known clinicians. We've seen wonderful performances of
famous masterworks, climbed to the highest point in Tennessee's Great
Smoky Mountains, eaten dinner in the Skybox of Neyland Stadium, visited
Dollywood, and explored downtown Savannah.

I don't mean to suggest that the typical "clinic or competition at an
amusement park tour" is a bad thing--I've done several of those as
well--but only to commend to you that my students and I have never had
as much fun as when we've built our trips around serving and helping
other people.

If you would like more details on what we've done and how it has
impacted my program, feel free to write me off list. I love bragging on
the wonderful things our students have accomplished.

--Julian Bryson
JBryson(a)randolphschool.net

The biggest concern people should have with homestays tend to occur at the
high-school level, when families with high school students host other high school
age students. Specifically, the potential problems involve alcohol, drugs, and
sex.

Unfortunately, no matter how "nice" your students appear to be, there's really no
way to be 100% sure that some of the ones selected to host other high school
students won't wind up offering to involve the hosted students one or more of
those three things as part of their "hospitality." While I didn't personally
experience this as a student, teacher, host, or touring director, I've heard horror
stories from colleagues. I'd speculate that such things occur in only a tiny
fraction of homestays, but even the slightest chance of such things should be
cause for at least a little concern.

However, hotel stays aren't necessarily better, in that you need to have excellent
(and perhaps all-night) chaperone coverage to make sure that everyone stays in
their rooms, and that there aren't any banned substances being used in those
rooms. In this case, I *do* have personal experience, in that while student
teaching at a high school, I was the one who discovered the students drinking
alcohol during a choir tour while at a motel. That group wound up with a three-
year touring ban.

I've had plenty of wonderful choir tour homestay (and hotel) experiences, but
wanted to bring up the possible pitfalls, lest we appear to be blissfully ignorant
of those negative possibilities.

Peace,
David Topping
david(a)hypercreations.com

At 5:43 PM -0700 4/1/09, Jason Thoms wrote:
>
>I do think that it is a cultural shift.? It is also my main part of
>my job to take my college choir on tours (in fact two tours this
>year cover 21 total concerts and 5000+ miles).? Students are often
>surprised by the fact that they will be staying in peoples homes,
>when they are new to the ensemble, but often (as you stated) it is
>the stories of host family experiences that really make a tour fun
>and memorable.
>
>Staying in host homes is what touring is about.? Meeting people and
>sharing your lives for an evening.? I can understand parents having
>safety issues, but what do they expect?? I would say this is what
>will happen.? Host families or stay home.

In my case, it was important that the parents of my college students
understand that we on the professional staff of my ensemble and the
student leadership were real people and really cared about taking
care of their babies, especially for incoming Freshmen. We always
started our 10-day pre-school Workshop with a picnic so that families
dropping off their kids could meet us all, chat a bit, enjoy our
presentations, and realize that we really did care. Our Workshops
were rather intense experiences, and we worked hard to get Rookies
bonded with veterans rather than feeling left out.

But the other discussion I sometimes had with parents was one that
our high school directors won't run up against, because theme parks
generally won't employ students under the age of 18. When one of my
students got cast in a theme park show, and the parents were
concerned, I pointed out that summer theme park work was probably the
safest entry-level employment in entertainment, because it was in the
parks' interest to make sure that everyone was as protected as
possible to protect their own reputations. Sure, they could get into
trouble; they could get into just as much trouble at home! But not
if they had a solid self-image to begin with. I did have a few
students--one in particular--who joined theater companies as their
entry-level jobs, and who reported back with some pretty grim
stories. The theme parks are certainly more protective than
traveling with rock bands, famous for their drugs, sex and booze!

John

P.S. Does anyone have a clue why Jason's email was sprinkled with
question marks? Is there one particular email program or browser
that does that?


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:John.Howell(a)vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.

> P.S. Does anyone have a clue why Jason's email was sprinkled with
> question marks? Is there one particular email program or browser
> that does that?

It's a quirk of ChoralNet's moderation system, John. I fixed a procedural issue
with Jason's original message by creating a "forged" copy, but our system didn't
use the same character set that was found in the original message, so that
discrepancy probably caused problems for your email software.

However, ChoralNet is moving the lists to a new web-based system in the near
future, so this particular problem will likely disappear at that time.

Peace,
David Topping
ChoralNet volunteer