Hi, Ethan.

 

Definitely look into Florida State. Kevin Fenton there was on our faculty here for a time and is first-rate, and got his Ph.D at Florida State.  It's a highly respected School of Music.

 

But there's one thing you need to check out or ask about.  At a good many universities the Masters program is not in Choral Conducting, but in Music Education.  That's fine if you want a Music Education degree, not so good if you plan to go through to the Ph.D or DMA and want to concentrate in choral conducting. 

 

That was the case at Indiana University (also a first-rate school) when I was there in the '70s, where the Masters in Choral Conducting leaned heavily on Music Education and Church Music preparation.  (Both my brother-in-law and his wife got Masters there.)  Of course Indiana, which at the time was the largest School of Music in the world (with North Texas a close second) had a huge number of ensembles, and assigned over 800 singers to choral ensembles every semester, including a separate choir for every conducting class!  There are advantages to size!!  Now that Jan Harrington has retired at Indiana, I'm not at all sure who is there, but it's likely to be some excellent people.

 

But the quality of any department depends on the people who are on the faculty NOW, and that changes over the years and sometimes does not keep up with a school's reputation.  You're in the right place, and asking the right questions.

 

All the best,

 

John

 

 

Hi Ethan! I am currently a Graduate Choral Conducting Student at Valdosta State University located in Valdosta, GA. I know its not in Florida, but very close! I graduated in Fall 2007 with my Bachelor's in Music Education. That Fall Valdosta gained a new Director of Choral Activities by the name of Dr. Paul Neal. He was fresh out of Doctoral school with his Doctorate in Conducting from UCLA. The MMP in Choral Conducting is a new degree which Dr. Neal  began his first semester here. I cannot begin to express how much I have learned from him! The core includes Music History, Theory, Music Research and Bibliography, Advanced Conducting Pedagogy, Private Conducting lessons every semester, and the option of private piano or voice. There are also assistantships available, even for out of state tuition waivers. You will receive ample podium time and will get to work with great musicians. Instead of writing a Thesis paper you are required to organize a Graduate Choral Conducting Recital your last semester. There is a lab choir available twice a week for you practice and improve your conducting with Dr. Neal instructing. I hope you consider VSU, I have loved my time here!

 

Good luck in your search!

 Katy

Florida State is one that you should check out, if you are interested in studying in Florida like John wrote.

If you wrote your academic and career goals (like, whether you are thinking to go to doctorate program too, considering teaching at high school level, working as a professional musician and etc...), we can offer more help to you.

CSULA has a 3 summer Master's in Choral conducting with Don Brinegar and Wm Belan. The program accepts about 10 students per summer, giving you a  30 conductor choir to work with.... Lots of podium time.... As part of the summer, there is a week long choral festival with a well-known composer   Love the program ~Janine    www.choralmasters.com

You might also search on the ChoralNet site itself, since this question has been asked numerous times in the past, and there are plenty of posts about graduate choral conducting programs in the archives.  Just use the Search box on the home page.

Ethan,

 

I would also suggest determining which program is the best fit for YOU.  It depends largely on what you plan to do after graduation and where you would function the best.  Some programs are very large and have many graduate students.  There is usually a good culture of collegiality and healthy competition for podium time.  On the other hand, a smaller program allows you to have ample podium time and individual instruction.  Weigh whether you would function best as a little fish in a big pond or a big fish in a little pond.  Also weigh the possible opportunities afforded to you in the respective programs that you consider and what will provide you with the best resumé fodder.  Best of luck in your continued studies.

Thanks to all of you for contributing to this topic!!

 

I have considered the pros and cons to both larger and smaller schools. My only fear about a smaller program is that I would fear about the quality of the program. But then again, bigger and more well known does not ALWAYS mean better, am I right?

 

I am thinking about getting my masters in choral conducting, or a similar field, and then my doctorate in education administration I would love to teach high school for some year, would not mind whatsoever teaching at a college level either. I am somewhat wide open

 

I will definitely keep your suggestions in mind. I am not limiting myslef to Florida schools, but I have had a desire to look into living in that state my entire life, so we'll see what happens. I am also heavily looking into Texas Tech as well.

 

Again, thanks to all,

Ethan 

Does anyone know of other programs like the above mentioned at CSULA?  I am a full time teacher (with family) and I would like to pursue a MM or MA in Conducting, but flexibilty is an issue for me.

Ages ago I was told this, (which might be like throwing a Porterhouse Steak amoung hungry lions): "Unless you go to Eastman, Julliard, Curtis or the big State Universities like Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, UCLA  everybody else is everybody else!" I chose Northwestern University and I have been very happy.

                                                                                             and consider this:

It is not the teachers which make the difference amoung schools it is the students.

 

But--getting your Master's Degree in Summers is it's own level of Hell. I know, I know, it is usually necessary in these or any days but the Summer Students

were like lambs to the slaughter compared to the full time grad students. I know that this was partially because of the comeraderie, I'm sure the distraction of actual work was a facor as well. This does, however, have something to do with the point, above.

S

 

My advice to everyone who has asked me this question:  find a person you want to study with.  The size/reputation/location of the school won't make nearly as much difference as having a good relationship with your primary teacher.  It is obviously possible for two adults to have a good working relationship, but I think it is better for students to have someone they trust completely and who will stand up for them as their primary teacher.  

Hey guys, I wanted to get your take on something that I think has been touched on here.

 

Would it be alright, in your opinion, to attend a university that isn't necessarily a HUGE name, but you mesh really, really well with the director and the program.???

 

 

There are plenty of great sounding programs out there, and I'm thinking one doesn't have to attend a huge school to gain large benefits. There are a few schools that I am now looking at that aren't the biggest name, but that I feel I would mesh erally well with the directors. 

My two cents:

 

I think meeting and knowing something about the person (or people) you are/will be working with is vital, as well as the kind(s) of student(s) you will be working with. I think you should look very seriously at actual guaranteed podium time and what expecations are for graduate recitals, particularly when it comes to what kind of resources the program will offer you to work with (in other words, do you have to find your own choir, or is one provided). Lastly, you are not doing yourself a favor if you don't consider what kind of aid/compensation the program will give you for the duration of your residency.

 

For a masters program, look VERY carefully at the crowd of folk you have to work with, particuarly if you are applying into a program that has doctoral candidates, and take honest stock of what your true chances are for getting time, distinguishing yourself, developing an experience you are proud of, and don't go hugely in debt in the process are. While large name programs have a lot going for them, they also have a lot going against them when it comes to a masters experience. Some of them honestly are a little too big.

 

Small programs don't necessarily mean small opportunities. I applied to several masters programs, and was accepted into some very fine programs both large and small. I chose to pursue my masters at a strong music school with a small grad program. I was guaranteed a choir for recital, ample conducting opportunities during the two years in residency, real time with some very fine conductors (who I am still in regular contact with), and a great deal of choice, autonomy, and "hands on" work. Most importantly, the assistantship I was offered essentially covered all tuition. Not many large programs can offer all of that to a masters candidate. Resources are scarce, and what resources there are justifiably go to their doctoral candidates first. If there are a lot of masters students in addition to the doctoral pool, well, you do the math (literally and figuratively).

 

As someone who could have gone to a "big school" and didn't, I have never regretted that choice.

 

Mike

No, no, no Ethan, it is very important that you base your choice of school
on how others view your choice, please don't do anything that might advance
your musical skills and personal goals-- it is only important that you imp
ress the universe with names and stuff on your resume. The world is a cruel
place which does not care about your actual musicianship and what you can
contribute to the world as a caring person, please do=A0 not be so naive as
to study in some godforsaken no-name yahoo outpost that may actually foste
r personal growth and creativity.

Best wishes on the resume building (and I hope you have chosen within the state with the best music programs (another of my favorite recent unfor
tunately vapid threads on ChoralNet).


Paul Carey

Ethan,

 

Having just finished this process, I feel that there are certain things one should investigate before signing on to any grad program:

 

1.  What opportunities for conducting will the grad student have?  Is there a shared "recital choir" for the grad students, or are you assigned to a choir as an "assistant?"  If you "assist," that might not yield as much stick time as with a "recital choir" that allows each grad student podium time on a regular basis.

 

2.  What financing/scholarships are available?  That one's a no-brainer, although a fellowship where you conduct a choir or teach classes in undergrad conducting would be very valuable on a CV.

 

3.  With whom would you study?  Listen to their recent recordings.  Find videos and watch them conduct.  Sit in on a rehearsal (maybe two) and get an idea of their methodology.

 

4.  What counseling/guidance/advising will you receive to finish the entire process?  Do the professors seem to be "plugged in" to helping the grad students finish all the paperwork, meet all deadlines, and organize (at least at the beginning) their degree plan?  If you are left to fend for yourself, you might find that you miss things that are critical.  Some schools (:)) feel that since you have completed an undergrad, tht you should be able to read the miles of pages concerning all the procedure and knowledge it takes to get the degree.  Therefore, good luck -- it's your problem to deal with, and not theirs.  This part of the investigative process also includes speaking with other students who are currently there and asking them specific, candid questions from which you wish to garner honest answers.

 

Besides that, look at the city in which you would be living.  Do you want to be in a more insulated, smaller community of academia, or does the big school/big fish-kind of atmosphere appeal to you more.  Also, this depends on whether or not certain schools say "Yes" or "No" to your application.

 

I hope something I said helped.  I hope you do well!

 

Daniel Farris

Assistant professor, Southwestern OK State University

DMA, University of North Texas

BM, Angelo State University

daniel.farris(a)swosu.edu

Ethan, Daniel, and Mike:

 

I understand exactly where you're coming from, and I appreciate the importance of the factors you mention, but with all the respect in the world, I have to suggest that talking about "guaranteed podium time" and "choirs that are provided," while important, can also be almost irrelevant.

 

I did my grad work at a school where the Choral Department assigned over 800 singers every semester to various choirs, counting the auditioned choirs, the show choirs, the opera chorus, and the keyboard players who had to have an ensemble credit, who generally went into conducting class choirs. It's true that the doctoral students got the most attention, since the masters program was very practically aimed at school teachers and church musicians and their classes DID have assigned choirs, but they did NOT "provide" a ready-made choir for recitals. And aren't the skills involved in recruiting and putting together an ensemble part of the job you're preparing yourself for?!!! After all, the people skills are just as important as the musical skills and technical skills.

 

We had one doctoral candidate who had some technical problems still to deal with when his first grad recital came up, but he was smart enough to recruit some of the best musicians in the School of Music to sing for him, and one of them told him, "Just get us started and then stay out of our way, and we'll make you look good"!!!

 

I'm reminded of the athletes who are recruited by being promised "guaranteed" playing time, and then find out that the world doesn't work that way. There are no guarantees, not ever! The most you can expect are opportunities, and making the most of those is entirely up to YOU!!

 

All the best,

 

John

 

 

Ethan,

  When I was in the Army, we always said the the next assignment best assignment. I have travelled a great deal and I find that largely true. The common thread is YOU. YOU bring YOU and YOU must make the best of whatever situation YOU find.

  I have always suggested to high school or college students looing for grad school in any disclipine, "go someplace else". This may not be true some much now, but the Midwest, where I was schooled had many, many different choral approaches which started with, do I use a baton or not?

 I you decide the the University of XYZ is THE place you must be and it isn't. Maybe you have decided that you like that "Lutheran Tradition" and find out that you really like the, at least at one time, the Westminster sound. You are not going to be very happy when one tendency is favored over the other.

 So, Go someplace else, the next place is the best place but grow where you go.

S

I am a little late chiming in, but I just finished a master's at USF.  I did a year of choral conducting before I was pretty much disgusted with the teacher and moved over to Music Ed to finish up (and I am VERY glad I did - Dr. Williams is great!).  I am a die-hard dedicated church musician (even though I teach at elementary and middle school level also) and my passion for church work was met with disdain from the choral professor who was at USF at the time.  It had never occurred to me that I would run into this attitude from any choral conductor - I guess that discovery is in line with the advice you have received from others to be sure the choral professor is really someone you want to work with (and be JUST LIKE, in most cases :)

 

  Anyway, there is someone different running the choral program at USF and I don't know that person but just thought I would share my experience.  Also, at USF you can get your master's in choral conducting during the regular semester only going two nights a week AND you can do your entire master's in music ed ONLINE.  It's a great program, very current, I highly recommend it!