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Setting high standards for my choirDate: February 18, 2010 by Jung Hwang
 Hello fellow musicians and music educators,
I am writing to express my frustrations and discouragements as a first year secondary choir teacher. I hope that you can help and guide me to be a better educator for my students.
I had a very successful first semester of teaching where my students sang very well at our winter concert. My relationship with my students were very positive and I was able to create a very safe haven for my students. However, when they came back from their winter break, they began to slack and get out of control to the point that I had to stop my teaching every five minutes. So I reminded them of my grading rubric and how my in-class participation grade is 30% of their entire grade. I had to give them many lectures on what I'm expecting from them in my classroom while giving them some room to be loose when the time is appropriate. However, they did not show any improvement in their behavior so I failed all of them in their progress report. I did not purposely fail them without any reasons, the numbers worked out to be very low after grading from my rubric. However, one student got really upset at me and sent me an email saying that he is dropping KAIAC (choir festival that we have with other schools once a year). KAIAC is voluntary but this student was using that to get back at me for giving him a low grade. Now I found out that he is going around telling other students to quit choir as well. He is a very popular student and he is very infuential on other students so I am very worried if this is going to impact my choir numbers for next year.
I am trying to build my choir program from scratch due to this one previous choir teacher discouraging and scaring off the students who were in choir before. The previous teacher was very mean and strict so the school had to let her go. She was verbally abusive to the students. So I'm coming into a school where they had a lot of hurts and scars. So I am scared that this rumor that this student is spreading will discourage my future students and smear my reputation. Was I wrong for having such a high standards for my choir students and for letting them know that they have to earn their grades even in an elective class like choir? I don't want them to think that choir is an easy A class where they think of it as a joke. *Sigh* Please help me.
Jung Hwang Replies (16): Threaded | Chronological
Tom Carter on February 18, 2010 3:04pm
Jung Hwang,
I'm wondering what would happen if you worked with them about this, rather than doing something to them. (Using grades as punishments and attempts to "correct" behavior will often breed resentment and anger.) Those are Educator/Activist Alfie Kohn's phrases, as he suggests creating a mutually respectful and collaborative classroom, in which each member has equal value. From his perspective, you might try sitting them down and having a heart to heart, asking them what's going on with them, what sort of environment they want, and asking what you can do to support them. Here are some similar thoughts, copied from my website:
DISCIPLINE with DIGNITY
To be fully confident and involved, singers need a safe environment. From my perspective, this can only happen when each person feels valued and respected as a fellow human being. In unsafe groups, we humans tend to hold back or act out – the joyful environment withering as we do so. Therefore, how we communicate – and how we guide group members to communicate with each other – is pivotal.
Loving kindness is what it’s all about. If we treat the singers supportively, they will respect us. And when we set uncompromising expectations of Support for all, the singers will meet them. If we accept less, we will get less.
How we communicate: Conscious Awareness
When we are aware of our thoughts and feelings as they occur we can act from a place of sensitivity and support rather than reacting out of anger or frustration.
The more Supportive we are, the more Expressive they can be. The less supportive we are (controlling, punitive, shaming, angry, inconsistent, fearful, cold, distant, authoritarian, having low expectations…), the less expressive they’ll be. And the less they'll enjoy the ensemble experience.
How singers communicate: They can be supportive ... with our help
When we are consciously aware of the singers’ words and behavior, we can pounce on every instance of unsupportive communication (vital in the first few days).
Be consistent, uncompromising, but kind: Mean what you Say, but don’t Say it Meanly.
Be loving but FIRM; don’t back down. Being “nice” by giving second chances or 'taking back' the consequence will guarantee chaos!
The Support System
Here's a progression the director can use which maintains Safety and Order (especially applicable to those of high school age or younger, though some aspects apply to all ages):
1. “Support...." (Spoken with an upglide or rising pitch, communicating the subtext, "Someone's not supporting right now. Is it you...? The tone and intent is very different than a declaritive command, which communicates "Do what I want, and do it now." (Look anywhere BUT at the person/s choosing the unsupportive words or actions)
2. If the singer doesn't stop, at the FIRST instance of continued unsupportive behavior, “Tom, are you choosing to support us right now? Could you? Thanks.” (with a smile and/or knowing grin)
3. Again, at the FIRST instance of continued lack of support, “Tom, please move [to empty seat, or switch seats with someone]. Thanks.”
4. And finally, at the very next instance of unsupportive behavior, “Tom, please sit in the in the chair off to the side... until you’re ready to support us. Thanks.”
Remaining kind, relaxed, but calmly assertive while not backing down with steps 3 & 4 is critical. Even if it takes three minutes of your standing there, saying "Nobody's in trouble here. But please move." Or, "I appreciate the fact that you're willing to be quiet from now on, but we need you to move...." What you accomplish in those three minutes will do more to support you and your singers than virtually anything else.
The singers now know that you are WILLING TO LEAD, and that you have a leader's integrity; they can't beg, bargain, plead, or manipulate you with flattery. AND you're not a punisher -- you're warm! Nice! Reasonable!
For much more info, check out the "Dignity w/ Discipline" page on my website.
All my best,
Tom
www.choralcharisma.com
Michael Bloem on February 24, 2010 1:45pm
Tom,
I have begun implementing the support system with some success in my middle school classroom. Where we sometimes struggle is with a few chatty students in the room. I consider talking while the group is singing or when one person is speaking to not be supportive and work students through the steps of the support system. Sometimes the system helps curb talking, other times not. Do you envision the support system to include this simple talking out of turn, even if there are not necessarily negative comments being spoken? It seems to be easy for one chatty student to start a conversation with a neighbor while I am directing step #2 toward another student.
Michael
Tom Carter on February 24, 2010 3:27pm
Michael,
Yes, I do consider talking during singing, or while one person "has the floor," to be unsupportive.
If that happens, even when I'm working with a group for only a couple of hours (and haven't formally instituted the Support System), I'll still say "Support....," and wait until it's there before we continue the discussion. One thing to note about that 1st step -- "Support..." needs to be said with an upglide at the end (the pitch rising) rather than with a downglide. Using a downglide makes it a command rather than an invitation/helpful reminder. Also important is where you look while you're saying "Support" -- ideally it will be anywhere but at the person who's being unsupportive.
It's always been my experience (and I hope it will be yours), that the more consistently I "work" the system, the more completely the kids buy in. It does take quite a bit of attention on your end to monitor the kids at the outset, but that should get better as they decide to Support you, their peers, and themselves.
Question: Are you seeing certain individuals who continually talk, no matter the invitation, no matter the help you give them by moving them to a different seat? If so, you might consider having a heart-to-heart with them and/or the whole group, and see if they can come up with some solutions. Other possibilities would include prompting the group at the very beginning of an interchange, be it your working with the altos or directing step #2 to an individual. "Folks, I'm about to ____________________. Do you know what you're going to do to remain supportive? Hands up if you're not sure..." Giving them specific tasks can also help.
BTW, did you do the supportive and unsupportive behavior exercise, with small groups brainstorming then presenting to the class? If you didn't, you might consider doing it now -- that's been so helpful in getting the kids to take ownership of the process, and to see that EACH person is responsible for their own behavior. If you didn't do it, then the Support System will likely look like just another Teacher vs. Students "disciplinary" method.
But glad to hear you're trying it. Keep me posted, and please continue to ask questions like these.
All my best,
Tom
on February 18, 2010 8:51pm
Hi, Jung. I'm sure you must have been required to take at least one course in Educational Psycology. Maybe it's time to think back to that course and what you should have learned. Specifically, positive reinforcement is MUCH more effective than negative reinforcement (i.e., punishment). Using your power to grade does not make you a leader. If anything it makes you (in their eyes, I have to emphasize) a dictator who has not earned their respect.
With my university show ensemble, I tried to make it very clear that leadership is not conferred on someone by virtue of their position, it is earned through the process of demonstrating leadership in the first place.
Please read and pay close attention to Tom's thoughts and suggestions. They are exactly what you need right now. They should, of course, have been covered in your music education classes, but unfortunately we have to spend so much time on theory that we seldom get to the practical, so every new teaching job turns into on-the-job training.
Besides Tom's excellent advice, there's one thing that my late wife learned from an experienced Kodály teacher: have your rehearsals planned so totally that from the moment before they walk into the room until the time they walk out, they never have a split second to do anything disruptive. That takes both a meticulous lesson plan and an agressive use of class time, but it can work.
And please realize that ANY first year teacher will face tests that are deliberate and inevitable. When I took over a university ensemble that had had a stern taskmaster before me, I emphasized that I was not him, I could not be him, and that I would simply be myself. Most students bought it, but I did lose a few who resented the fact that I was not the man they had idolized. So be it. It's your choir now, and it's up to you to make it so rewarding that students will fight to get in!
All the best,
John
on February 19, 2010 7:22am
I was so hoping that Tom would come along and answer - your situation is just the kind that his methods are ideally suited to help with!
Another thought - and this is one I learned from Mike Brewer, who directs the National Youth Choir of Great Britain (and so is used to adolescent egos!). If you have a strong character making trouble, you need to give him some responsibility. That channels his need for attention and capacity to wield power and gets it working productively for you.
Good luck, and hang on in there. What you are learning through this experience will nourish the rest of your working life.
liz
on February 20, 2010 11:49am
You failed ALL of them? Surely there were at least some students who were trying?
Do they like the literature they are singing now? Is it challenging enough? Is it so challenging it's stressful? This could be one difference from last term to this term.
I'm sure Tom and the others here know more of what they are talking about than I do, but as a student teacher, I've struggled with middle schoolers as well as high school freshman in this regard. I've had the most success when I put the problems and solutions in their hands. With the middle schoolers, I had them choose their own solutions - and this has worked well. (When I give them the signal for quiet, if they are not attentive within five seconds, they get a check on the board... after five checks, they all have to stay late after class for five seconds/check. Checks can also be applied to individuals if they are continually holding the class back.) I'm not suggesting you use this method. I believe the reason it works is because it's what THEY came up with.
With my high school girls, I asked them to create their own goals for the class. I try to point out to them how each aspect of what I do leads them to accomplish their own goals.
I can't say I'm perfect at classroom management, but putting the power to problem solve in their hands has helped a lot.
Another thing that has helped a lot has been sharing myself on a personal level. If they see me as a *person* and not just some teacher, they are more invested in workng together with me.
on February 20, 2010 1:06pm
I just recently bought Tom's book "Choral Charisma." It have only read the first chapter so far, but I have already put the theory of it in place and it has really changed my classroom already! We started with a classroom discussion about supportive and nonsupportive behavior, and the students really went for it. I am a 2nd year middle school choral director and one of my biggest weaknesses is behavior management. I want my students to focus and pay attention, but I also want them to feel comfortable. I don't want them to feel like they can't share input or ask questions. One of my classes was just drowning in negativity during the first semester and everything I tried seemed to fail. I even had a few drop out of that class, and I was really starting to worry about next year's numbers. We have a festival coming up, so this couldn't have been a more perfect time to introduce the system of supporting each other. I would really suggest checking out that book! I really think it will help you!
Another thing I want to say is that I have also struggled with grading for participation. My principal really does not want us to grade based on behavior. It is so hard to back up a grade that is based on behavior if someone questions it. Instead of dropping grades, have you tried calling parents or other discipline methods that your school uses? We have lunch detention and after school detention, so teachers often use those for discipline. I try to give my students the grade they earned based on performance and written work, then if there are problems with talking in class or being disrespectful, I try to handle that without using the grades.
I hope this helps! Good luck!
on February 20, 2010 8:02pm
We have all felt this in our first year with an ensemble. Add to this the fact you are new to secondary school students who are very different from anyother leve; even eighth grade.
This choir still belongs to your predecessor good or bad. It will take up to four years for the old regime to pass due to graduations. But, sooner than later, the choir will become yours, good or bad.
You are the point person, you set the tone and maintain yourself stubbornly if you are convinced that you are right. Some singers will leave but many will stay and you will have not failed.
You are the person who, by your mere presence in teaching music, can reach the most people: those forgotten by No Child Left Alive which truly reaches only 12% of the student body--those who can listen to the lecture, take the notes and vomit those facts back on test papers. Your singers are there before you because relationships. Their prevailing question is not What? Why? What If? but What does this mean to me? You and the music you choose may answer part of that question. You give your students a sound track to their lives. In your hands they can sing the words of gods, and sinners, lovers, loosers, seekers, finders. They can see into ever culture and their differing patterns of life. You have a different culture to give them yourself. These are the gifts which are in Your hands which few other teachers can or allowed to give.
All of us teaching musicians have a long list of student, known and unknown, that we and the music, have kept in school long enough to find themselves. All of my list has gone on to great things because I loved them enough to give them my unique messages because I could talk to Bach, Beethoven and Brahms and they gave me answers about themselves never included in the facts about being blind or deaf or other cocktail party chit chat. In the music alone, they (and the Muse sitting on their shoulders who whispered, "don't let those things get in your way--that's just little stuff--what are you going to do with this: dadadadadat-dada-dada--yeah, that's the brown Danube, we'll name it something else, later) not there living conditions, are revealed. YOU are the Revealer.
Everyone of us has given you the means to courage and success. There are some things over which you have no control. Deal with the thing you can.
S
on February 20, 2010 10:22pm
If a student is graded 30% on participation it doesn't seem like they all would fail the class. I think it is probably bad policy to use grades to try to fix behavior problems. Even it it was, in fact, fair, I have found no anecdotal or research-based evidence to indicate that it is effective in improving rehearsals. It might make the teacher feel as if they had somehow "gotten back" at the student who mis-behaves, but this does nothing to improve the student's behavior. Grades should be based on learing somehow.
on February 21, 2010 4:10pm
Jung Hwang,
That you have high standards is admirable.
If you come from a culture, whether in the US or abroad, where authority is automatically respected, and musical training is highly valued, and this is your first full-time experience teaching in a culture where that is not necessarily the tradition, the students' behavior will be quite a shock to you. If you are the type of person who never had to be told to respect your authorities, or your leaders, it will be very frustrating to you to deal with students who do not treat you with respect. I know, because I have been in your position.
I would bet anything that the student who is complaining and telling other students to quit choir was also one of the bigger behavioral problems. If you are a small, young female, you are also an easy target for complaints about "unfairness" and "meanness" when you do not allow students to treat you disrespectfully. If you were working with a choir of adult professional singers, including most college music majors, you would not have these problems, because they understand the etiquette of choral rehearsals. Many high school students do not. But the students do want nurture as well as discipline. Using grades negatively can backfire. Tell your students, "You will get an A if..." rather than, "You will fail if..." If they truly deserve to fail, however, I believe you ought to stick to your standards, and let them experience the consequences of their actions.
While you can certainly work on developing trust and respect with your students in ways other than grades, some students are simply testing you, and there may be a rough period for a couple of years.The first semester is a honeymoon period. Now they are letting down a bit. I hope that your administration is supportive of you and openly states their support, in front of the students. It does make one wonder whether the previous "mean" and "strict" teacher also had these problems with the students.
If you are somewhere where the weather is cold, remember that it is mid-winter, and students get very restless and irritable at this time of year. Remember when you enter the classroom that you are a "thermostat", not a "thermometer," and no matter how unruly the students are, exude calmness and happiness in your direction of them. Don't let them see your frustration. Be firm but positive.
The best advice given below is to plan your rehearsals meticulously - look for new ways to keep them occupied every minute - things that also involve physical movement. If you are an introverted, reflective person, keeping the students occupied will be tough at first. The pace will feel very fast to you, but it does help a great deal. Try to keep them all doing something at all times. This takes a tremendous amount of creativity, research, and planning, but in the end, you will either build the program to something you can be proud of, or you will have honed your rehearsal skills so that you can successfully audition for a different position. I know this is a very difficult time for you, but try to see this as a valuable learning experience that will, in the end, make you a very fine teacher and choral conductor.
D. Sonntag
on February 21, 2010 6:26pm
While teaching a music methods class at a local university, a student asked me how I graded. I put the following on the white board:
1. 30% on participation
2. 30% class assignments
and
3. 30% in class and activity attendance
After a long pause, one of the students in the back of the room raised her hand. "Yes, may I help you?" I asked. She then read out loud all that I had just writen on the white board, and I assured her that she was correct. She then said, "What about the other 10%?" Well, I said, "That last 10% is wether or not I like you." There was quite a ster in the room. Finally, one student suggested that this was not an appropiate way to grade. I assured him that this was probably the way most profs graded but just didn't say so. The student then said, "Well, what do I have to to do to have you like me?"
I assured him that at the beginning of a class I like everybody, therefore everyone had already earned 10% of their grade. For me to dislike anyone would mean that they really didn't attend to 1, 2 and 3.
Frank
on February 21, 2010 7:54pm
I love that story, Frank, and yes, it's CLOSE to being true. I have to build limitations on myself into my grading. Students are VERY big on perceived fairness. When I first came to this university we weren't allowed to grade on attendance, but that changed at some point and now we are. It can help, but in my big class (about 150) I don't bother to take attendance.
I don't know whether this would work for ensemble, or for high school, but from my older daughter (a math education specialist) I picked up this idea:
I give students in my Music Survey class a choice of three Grading Options. Option 1 ("Bet It All!") is being graded on 5 Unit Quizzes and a Final Exam, and is aimed at the students who try to cram the night before an exam instead of keeping up with the class. Option 2 ("Hedge Your Bets") is they way I would do it for everone because it's better educational psychology: there is "homework" with deadlines that is graded and that counts 15% on their grade, and the wieghting on Unit Quizzes and the Final is reduced. And Option 3 ("Play It Safe") reduces that weighting even more and addes 2 additonal written assignments, for people who don't do as well on multiple-choice exams or who enjoy writing.
My daughter picked up this idea from a professor in the Forestry Department. Apparently Forestry majors are hard on female professors, and she had to spell everything out for them. My daughter had to adapt it for her math classes, and she helped me adapt it to my class's needs. I do find that it's appreciated whenever I can manage to give students choices, even though it isn't all that often.
All the best,
John
on February 22, 2010 11:38am
John:
Thanks for the nice comment and the info.
Always enjoy your thoughts.....
Frank
on February 24, 2010 9:33am
Have to ask this, John: do you require the students to choose one of those grading options at the beginning of the term, or can they wait and see what grades they get on the first couple of quizzes? Or wait until the end of the semester and calculate their grade all three ways and see which one is best? Too many choices seems like a lot more work for you.
on February 25, 2010 7:16pm
I require students to choose a grading option within the first week of classes, with a default for those who don't bother or don't care. I then give them a period of time during which they can change options AFTER they get their scores from the first of 5 Unit Quizzes. The Forestry professor who originated (or discovered) the idea required any changes to be made by the next class day. I give them a week to think about it instead.
They mostly take it seriously, and with the help of my daughter the Math Education specialist I have my Gradesheet (and Excel spreadheet) set up to do all the calculations instantly. And no, I don't alow any late semester changes. This is necessary because if they haven't chosen an Option that requires taking the online quizzes as homework, it's hard for them to make them up if they decide to change. This semester I've had fewer than a dozen out of a class of 120 decide to make a change.
John
on April 30, 2010 11:54am
First years are always hard. I'm just completing my first year in a similar possition to yours. I'm not a new teacher, but new at a school with a fairly disfunctional program. Let's just say its taken them most of the year to "see the light." Anyhow, kids tend to forget why they do things. They just get into habits and don't question their behavior. The truth is, you all should be in choir for the same goal, to make music. The students should want to make music, and you should want to lead them. Sometimes you just need to have a class discussion about that. Let them know the the reasons for your classroom rules.
I also have an important conversation with my students at the beginning of the year about my expectations. I first remind them that choir is an ELECTIVE. If you don't want to work you don't have to be here. I then tell them that I expect them to come in everyday ready to work and that this is the only time I'm going to mention that. If they decide to be disruptive or or not participate I'm not going to harass them and remind them, but they're certainly not comming back to class next semester. I have a really supportive adminstration so I was able to have it that students may not sign up for choir unless they come see me about it. I don't even audition the kids, I just make sure they understand the expectations before they sign up. Truth is, if you have a conversation about wanting to work toward the same goals and how it needs to happen with the class and there are still kids that are disruptive, let them go. Quality will breed quantity.
I have a couple phenominal singers that are probably not coming back this year, just because I didn't let them get away with murder like the last teacher. C'est la vie!
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