Issues for pieces with instrumenalists

Date: April 27, 2010

I am an undergraduate music education major taking a choral class for instrumentalists. We are giving presentations about issues that are specific to choir teachers. My particular topic is this: What issues might arise in working with instrumentalists and singers within the same piece? This might include, but not be limited to accompanists, pieces that are written with one instrument and singers (such as violin or trumpet), opera and musical theatre, or choir and orchestra/wind enemble. It's a pretty broad topic. So far I have conducted an interview with a conductor whose recently had his first experience doing this, but he is primarily an instrumentalist. I have also looked at some books and tried some searches on periodical databases, but I have not found a whole lot of resources. What kinds of insights or resources do any of you have to consider?

Reply >>

Replies (5): Threaded | Chronological

John Howell on April 28, 2010 12:17am

Hi, Michael. I suspect that the reason you aren't finding a lot of resources is that your topic is MUCH too broad and comprehensive, and every separate part of it would be discussed--if it's discussed at all--without reference to the other parts. Heck, that's too broad a topic for a doctoral dissertation!!!

Now if you're interested in including show ensembles in your report, we might have something to talk about. And in that case, please feel free to contact me off-list. I've spent a good many years doing shows with everything from a quartet to a 22-member cast, with instrumental accompaniment (and NEVER prerecorded tracks!!!), and on the professional, educational, and community levels.

John

John.Howell(a)vt.edu

Michael Lasfetto on April 28, 2010 6:18am

I agree, which is why I have been looking at references that were specific to certain situations and think back to my experiences working either as an accompanist or an ensemble member (either orchestra or other instrumentalist). I have found several books that mention things related to this component of music, but many of them are rather old. One of the books I found was on jazz/rock chorus and the use of a rhythm section, I also have found opinions on baton etiquette and others on issues when dealing with accompanists. While searching this and the MENC forums, I found that much of what was coming up was simply a lack of knowlege of available repertiore or performance practice. As of right now for example, the most recent activity bar on the side of the page is topped by the thread on whether or not to perform the Brahms Requiem on pipe organ vs. two pianos. Most of what I have had so far is a paragraph here and a paragraph there. Thanks for your help. I think I'll take you up on the offer.

stephen coggeshall on April 28, 2010 1:17pm

Here are a few issues that one needs to deal with in doing a choral work with instruments.

- Separate rehearsals with the instruments and the choir. Generally you prepare both during the time leading up to the performance, but with different rehearsals. Depending on the level of professionalism invloved for both groups (instruments, choir), you make your rehearsal plan accordingly. Usually one has far fewer rehearsals with the instruments because they are generally better trained to immediately play what's on the page (dynamics, articulations etc.). This is one of my frustrations with choral singers - we tend to approach music less rigorously around the markings, particularly where the markings are directly from the composer.

- The logistics of the rehearsals when you bring together both forces. If you have more than one rehearsal (call it the dress rehearsal) before the performance, you don't need to run movements in order, so you can plan the rehearsal to be respectful of people's time. Do movements that involve the trumpets, oboes or whatever first, move to the movements with the entire orchestra, let some instruments go home, finish with a different set of small instruments or vocal soloists. Make sure you have a rehearsal plan any time you go into a rehearsal. Know what you must get through so you know how deep you can go on any issue.

- Misc.: The logistics about instrument placement and issues around balance. Where will the orchestra put their cases? What's the concert dress? What's the call time for each different group? I typically have the orchestra find their places on their own, warm up on stage on their own, and tune at concert opening. I will warm up the choir and then work through a few tricky parts from the dress rehearsal. sometimes I will just start many of the pieces. Think through the bows at the end, particularly for soloists.

Kentaro (Ken-P) Sato on April 28, 2010 2:11pm

>> What issues might arise in working with instrumentalists

>> and singers within the same piece?

As John write, this is very broad topic... But when it comes to working with larger instrumental ensembles, the fatal reherasal crushers (caused by conductors) come from these two things...

1) Beggining (choral) conductors are not experienced with reading transposed score and alt clef.

When questionable notations and other issues came up, and one has to check pitches in various parts, beggining (choral) conductors are usually frozen, if not prepared...

2) Beggining (choral) conductors are not experienced with instrumentalists who only see their parts in front of them.

This cause a lot of troubles when a beginning condcutor is (re)starting the piece at somewhere in the middle.

If he is not careful, he will be facing;

a lot of confused faces, or

we-don't-have-measure-numbers, or

we-don't-have-reherasal-letters, or

totally-lost-percussionists-who-doesn't-know-where-"it"-is-because-he-only-see-multiple-rests-in-his-parts-up-to-that-point...

Purely musical issues rarely become problems in the reherasal. It is rather mechanical issues kills conductors.

John Howell on April 28, 2010 4:45pm

Kentaro is absolutely correct, but there is one other factor that's important. Orchestral players expect and deserve a clear beat pattern. Too many choral conductors, since they typically have MUCH more time preparing their singers, are into "shaping phrases" and lose their patterns, and that can lead to wrong entrances by the orchestral musicians. I find that when I try to get too fancy with my beat, it just confuses people!

Robert Shaw was certainly not the only conductor to master this, but he was one of the best. I've seen him finishing a phrase with one section, cuing in another section, and warning a third section to be ready for their entrance, ALL AT THE SAME TIME. He did as much with his eyes as he did with his hands, but his hands were fairly magical.

All the best,

John

Reply >>