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Men's Chamber Chorus RepertoireDate: January 19, 2012 by RC Haus  Views: 5482
I would appreciate your opinions on what is great repertoire for a Men's Chamber Chorus. What would make an interesting and entertaining concert while not becoming pedestrian.
thanks
Replies (32): Threaded | Chronological
Allen H Simon on January 19, 2012 11:24am
ChoralNet has many repertoire lists arranged by voicing.
RC Haus on January 19, 2012 1:54pm
The TTBB selection is rather odd there. It is grouped by Christmas or other things, but nothing that looks like serious chamber music. Also, several of the lists I opened were modern composers trying to sell their music.
Christopher Marshall on January 20, 2012 6:18am
Oh no!
What a horrid thought!
Well, fellow composers, we've been warned....
Archive User on January 20, 2012 10:01am
I'm hoping that RC didn't mean what at least two of us composers fear RC meant... Can you clarify, RC? Perhaps at this time you are only interested in "older" or "classical" chamber pieces by no-longer-living composers, and didn't intend to communicate anything beyond that.
On the other hand, if you aren't now and probably won't ever be interested in pieces by "modern composers," I would be very interested in knowing why, and what, if anything, could change your mind. I can only speak for myself, but as a new composer I am genuinely interested in learning how to better meet conductors' wants and needs, and would greatly appreciate any thoughts you would be comfortable sharing.
And if any other conductors are reading this and would be willing to share your thoughts on the subject, as well, that would be fantastic.
Chris Hutchings on January 21, 2012 5:41am
Is your problem with modern composers, or the fact that they're trying to sell their music rather than giving it away for free? (Because clearly composers are all independently wealthy and don't actually deserve to be paid for their hard work.)
Just because something is by a living composer doesn't mean it will be more difficult to sing, more expensive or less suitable for your choir than any other piece that you don't know. Please be at least slightly open to the possibility of performing music by living composers.
Lee G. Barrow on January 21, 2012 7:40am
As a long-time successful conductor and composer who (rarely) plugs his own published and unpublished works, I feel the need to respond to this.
I am quite reluctant to consider the works of living composers for many reasons, based on my past experience:
1. I often get attitute such as seen in this thread from composers who don't understand my situation and the reasons why I make certain choices in literature.
2. When I have invited composers to submit scores for consideration in the past, I was inundated. Half of the scores I received did not fit the criteria I requested; about 10% of the remainder seemed to me to be worthy of consideration, and usually less than 1% fit my needs at the current time. This represents a high level of time commitment for very little return.
3. There are hundreds of thousands of choral works I can consider for performance. I need some filtering mechanism to help me wade through the impossible task of reviewing all of that literature--works that have stood the test of time; works that have been successfully performed by others; published works from certain publishers I respect who have already done some filtering.
So what can living composers do to get my consideration? First, realize that all persons, including you and me, are not the best judge of the quality of their own compositions. Second, don't suggest your work unless you feel it is a perfect fit to what I am requesting. Third, work to get your music promoted by persons other than you--publishers or conductors. Finally, don't get upset or be sarcastic when I say I am not interested in your work or in living composers at this time--you don't know my situation and my reasons why.
Archive User on January 21, 2012 9:20am
Thank you very much for responding to the invitation to share thoughts on this subject. It seems to me that the relationship between conductors and composers is often regrettably strained and difficult, especially now as the entire publishing world is changing so rapidly and composers are forced--if they wish to become or remain at all successful--to employ creative, non-traditional methods of "getting their music out there."
From one composer's point of view, in response to your #2, one strategy that would help us better meet conductors' needs (by both composing and offering that which would be a "perfect fit") would be for conductors to provide as much detailed information as possible when inviting composers to submit scores for consideration. Beyond the very basic essentials (voicing, accompaniment, etc.), it would be very helpful to know much more. How large is your choir? How many voices in each section? Are they timid or bold as a group? Are you looking for sacred or secular? Fast, medium, or slow tempo? Desired length? Easy or challenging, or somewhere in between? Is your audience conservative or progressive, youngish or oldish? In what type of concert/venue will the work be performed? What other key pieces will be performed? Do you want something with a WOW factor, or need a voice-resting filler? Do you have capable soloists? If so, which voices? Those are only a few off the top of my head; I'm sure you can think of more.
As to your #3, ChoralNet's upcoming online Composers' Marketplace (for works by living composers) is being designed to enable you to filter new works much more quickly and easily via specific criteria and reviewers' comments, to help you find those works which you feel worthy of consideration.
John Howell on January 21, 2012 11:23am
Lee and Julia: A true story to show just how difficult seemingly simple communication can be. Lee wrote:
"2. When I have invited composers to submit scores for consideration in the past, I was inundated. Half of the scores I received did not fit the criteria I requested; about 10% of the remainder seemed to me to be worthy of consideration, and usually less than 1% fit my needs at the current time. This represents a high level of time commitment for very little return."
Several years ago, one of the composers on the OrchestraList started a sort of clearing house very much like the proposed Composers' Marketplace (although organized differently) that he called the "Composer-Conductor's Bridge." The idea was for conductors to post very exact and detailed lists of their needs, to which composers could respond with suggestions that met exactly those criteria.
Ah, if only it had worked! I tried it exactly ONCE, when our amateur community string orchestra (not that different from many amateur community choruses) was looking for some great new music. And I, too, was innundated by submissions, almost NONE of which met the very specific criteria I had given in terms of style and difficulty, and a good many of which touted their quality by saying that they were "just like" one old orchestral piece or another. (The Barber Adagio was a great favorite, and the Pachelbel Kanon another!) And a good many also arrived with what we HAD to consider an overinflated price for an unknown work, since our operating budget is close enough to zero to be indistinguishable from it!
Lee is correct: according to Sturgeon's Law about 10% of anything is worthwhile, so it's interesting to see that confirmed. And the 1% that was suitable shows how many composers actually paid attention to what he asked for.
Julia is asking a simple question: WHAT KIND OF MUSIC DO YOU ACTUALLY NEED?!! Please don't tell us that your music is the future of the choral art. You aren't qualified to make that judgement. Please don't present a theoretical analysis of your compositional process to "prove" its quality. We only care about how it sounds and how it affects people's emotions, not whether you used quartal harmony or mathematically-derived tone rows. What WOULD be helpful is references to local choirs who have sung your works and enjoyed them, so that's who you should be writing for, and of course decent demos whether live or computer-generated because music doesn't exist on the page, it exists as sound in time.
Whatever the mechanism is that the Composers' Marketplace eventually adopts, let me ask our composers to PLEASE pay attention and to be willing to provide music that SERVES THOSE NEEDS. And I predict that those composers who can and will do that, willingly and responsively, will find success, and that those who prefer to write only what they are inspired to write will not. Write the music people want and need and they will come. That's what commercial composers have done for centuries--you know, commercial composers like Josquin, Palestrina, Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mendelssohn, and so on. They wrote music for immediate performance, to fill an immediate need, and to please the folks who paid for it, and it ALWAYS got performed. And this is a Bad Thing exactly why?!!!
All the best,
John
Chris Hutchings on January 23, 2012 4:15am
Fair points. I had no idea that other composers were so willing to send in scores without checking suitability - this is something I take great care over personally, and I'm quite appalled that you got so many scores that didn't fit the criteria. I don't suggest my work unless I'm confident that it's suitable, and most of my choral pieces have been performed (often by amateur choirs, sometimes under my own direction). Maybe I should make that clearer when sending them to people.
I could have been far more upset and sarcastic there than I was. I was reacting to the fact that "modern composers trying to sell their music" appeared to have been dismissed out of hand by the original poster, and genuinely would like to know if his problem is with "modern composers" or "trying to sell their music".
John Howell on January 23, 2012 9:33am
Chris: Your latest question are entirely valid, and hopefully the Composers' Marketplace will provide at least part of an answer. Is it the "modern" or is it the "selling"? If "modern" is the problem, there's no quick fix for it. But if it's the selling ...
Personal opinion: We are inundated morning to night with advertisers trying to SELL us something, too often something we didn't know we needed, much too often something we really DON'T need. There's a natural reaction to that, and I think it kicks in whenever we feel someone is getting too aggressive.
I have to say that the OrchestraList has found a rather good happy medium. New compositions are posted as INFORMATION, not as sales pitches. In fact there's an actual form that's used, although I haven't seen it used lately. And simply making it known that something new is available seems perfectly on topic for lists that include people who are LOOKING for new music. But there's a huge difference between "build it and they will come" on the one hand, and "you really need my new piece" on the other. Our small community chamber orchestra is about to start rehearsals for what will be the world premier of a new piece for soprano solo and strings, which was simply mentioned on the OrchestraList. i saw it, I contacted the composer, we corresponded, and everything worked out beautifully. I'm sure that similar things have happened right here on ChoralNet. How about some comments on THAT, friends?!!
'Nuff said. A marketplace is where people can come together to match needs and availability. A neutral marketplace would be a very valuable thing to have.
All the best,
John
Wallace De Pue on January 21, 2012 5:18pm
RC, I think I spelled Renaissance incorrectly. Can you forgive a half-dead composer?
Christopher Marshall on January 22, 2012 5:49am
It was not so long ago that messages from composer subscribers to 'Choralist' were rejected if the moderators deemed that they were self-promotional. Then, for a while composers were banished to their own sub-list.
While I feel sure that that RC's message was not an intended slight to self-published composers, its implied assumption that all or most subscribers to Choralnet shared a negative view of "modern composers trying to sell their music" provided an unwelcome flashback to the marginalisation of previous times.
Choralnet has evolved into an invaluable resource for all participants in the world of choral music, primarily directors, but also singers and composers. This is one of the most collaborative of the arts. We all need one another to keep that art healthy. This recent exchange of opinions is a reminder both of how well the new Choralnet serves that goal and how, through keeping the doors open, the collaboration can be improved.
on January 19, 2012 11:51am
How many singers? What age? A Capella or accompanied? Piano
or instrumental accompaniment?
on January 19, 2012 5:07pm
RC -
I have a TTBB (w/minor divis) of "Abound In You" a cappella. Contact me directly if you are interested. Here's the SATB performance by the William Baker Chorale. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeqiN3hbTow
Rick
crickb88(a)cox.net
on January 20, 2012 1:33am
One of our suggestions here:
music by Chopin, Fryderyk Franciszek
[Étude Op. 10, št. 3] after Ilya Fyodorovich Tyumenev arranged by Gašper Jereb Žalovanje / Żal [Sorrow] Polish / Slovene Text Edition Only [Polish / English Text Edition in preparation] for soprano or tenor solo, low voices (TTBB) with piano accompaniment
ASTRUM Music Publications & Distribution
Vito Primozic [Mr.], Director of Music Publications
on January 20, 2012 4:40am
Carl Czerny-
Adjutor Meus-ttbb a cappella, Colla Voce Music Beatus Vir-ttbb a cappella, Colla Voce Music Ferdinando Bertoni-
Padre Martini-
on January 20, 2012 5:39am
Why don't you contact the men of Chanticleer and ask them for copies of their past programs, etc.? Or just look at the repertoire on their many CDs?
I myself have a couple of good pieces for men's voices a cappella, so please have a look at them on my ChoralNet page, or my website: www.jamesjohnsonmusic.net
on January 20, 2012 6:28am
While Chanticleer is a male ensemble by gender, it's mostly
an SATB ensemble in terms of repertoire. So their programs wouldn't
be of much help. Cantus is a professional TTBB group that performs
a lot of interesting men's music. You can find them, their
recordings and their programs online.
Check out the websites of the many thriving collegiate men's choruses. You'll find plenty of repertoire ideas in their programs and recordings. You might also look at the resources of Intercollegiate Men's Choruses, Inc., a national service organization for men's choruses of all types. www.imci.us
on January 20, 2012 6:29am
I have written several things for men's voices, including a full-length oratorio (can be done with piano with a small group) on texts of Thomas Jefferson (with a terrific short a cappella fugue in the middle on the text "the Truth is Great and will Prevail if left to Herself.", a parody fugue based on the Air Force Song ("Off we Go into the Wild Fugue Yonder), and a purple harmonization of the National Anthem.
You may see scores and hear MP3s on my new website here:
Please contact me offlist if you are interested in any of these.
Regards,
David Avshalomov
davshalomov(a)earthlink.net
cell 310-480-9525
on January 20, 2012 6:56am
If you consider works with instruments, I really like this chamber piece by Giovanni Sollima http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrNFTVfT6S0
best
Hildigunnur
hildigunnur rúnarsdóttir
composer, soprano, music teacher
Iceland
on January 20, 2012 9:11am
Consider Britten's Battle of Little Musgrave and Lady Barnyard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3Oxsli2A_c
Walker - How Can I keep from Singing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MsuNHWsYdc
Rick
on January 20, 2012 12:12pm
Dear RC,
I conduct a SATB chamber choir and use a strategy to choose new repertoire which could also help you. I have found it difficult to have the "world as my oyster"--I need a starting place.
I think you have to start some place--do you have any ideas beyond "interesting and entertaining?" In you case, I would begin in the 19th century and in Germany. Alsolutely lovely things written for men's voices for the singing societies so prevalent during that time and place which could be fine for a smaller group. What about, Viva la compagnie? Start from there!
Marie
on January 20, 2012 1:41pm
Brahm's Alto Rhapsody, (obviously, a contralto required); Schubert Die Nacht; Die Nachtigall; Die Gondelfahren; Mondenschein; Vecchi Fa una canzone (Bourne Music); Biebl Ave Maria; Casals O vos omnes; Dawson Ain'a that Good News: Ezekial saw de wheel (and many others); Weber Hunter's Chorus. Good luck!
on January 20, 2012 4:16pm
I invite you to take a look at my setting of the De profundis, Out of the Depths:
All best!
Jonathan Santore
on January 21, 2012 4:43pm
RC Haus, I appreciate your thoughts/concerns about using newly-written pieces. For my graduate conducting recital, I had a men's chorus. Here was my first proposal for a program:
“Eat, Drink and Be Merry” PROPOSED PROGRAM #1 If Music Be the Food of Love . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . David Dickau if you can’t eat you got to . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Leonard Bernstein Drinking Song (from “Six Choruses”, Op. 53) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Gustav Holst Drinking Song (Back and Side Go Bare) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ralph Vaughan Williams Here Is To Good Old Whisky . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . arranged by Bert Thorsén Karádi nóták (Songs from Karad, Drinking Song) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Zoltán Kodály Vinum bonum (III from “Carmina juventutis”) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . David Conte INTERVAL
Now Is the Month of Maying . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Thomas Morley (Blohm, Arr.) Tanzen und springen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Hans Leo Hassler (Weitemeyer, Arr.) They Shall Be As Happy (from “The Fairy Queen”) . . . . . . . . Henry Purcell (Sund, Arr.) Three Psalms, Op. 54 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Kenneth Leighton Happy Together. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Originally by The Turtles, arrangement by The Nylons
Here is the program I ended up doing instead: "Music You Don't Hear Every Day"
if you can’t eat you got to . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Leonard Bernstein (1918-1990)
The Peacocks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Zoltán Kodály (1882-1967)
O vos omnes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Pablo Casals (1876-1973)
Hope is the Thing With Feathers (from Elämän kirja) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Einojuhani Rautavaara (1928- )
Vastalaulud (Shrovetide Songs) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Veljo Tormis (1930- )
Vistel-vastel
Lina loitsimine
Liulaskmise-laul
The Ballad of Little Musgrave and Lady Barnard . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Benjamin Britten (1913-1976)
INTERVAL
Chanson à boire . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Francis Poulenc (1899-1963)
A Stopwatch and an Ordnance Map . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Samuel Barber (1910-1981)
Attention, Ladies! (from Mail Order Madrigals) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . William Schuman (1910-1992)
Choral Hymns from the Rig-Veda (set four) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Gustav Holst (1874-1934)
Hymn to Agni
Hymn to Soma
Hymn to Manas
Hymn to Indra
Pseudo-Yoik NT. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Jaakko Mäntyjärvi (1963- )
Hope you find this useful in some way. Orphei Drangar has a searchable database of all of their music, which was helpful in my research. I ended up borrowing several pieces from them, as well as a men's choir from Finland called Ylioppilaskunnan Laulajat. They were exremely kind, sending the music overseas. Anyway, let me know if you want more info. Cheers!
- Adam
on January 21, 2012 5:13pm
Hi R.C.!
Since I'm at least half-dead, could I interest you in some contemporary music by a half dead-composer?
If I were to make a fine program of my own works for your audience, I would start with my arrangement of Sing dem Herrn (M. Praetorius) as a Rennaisance processional. Next, I'd select a barbershop piece from my barbershopera Something Special. (Google: barbershopera Something Special.) Following that, I'd present my arrangement of Water Boy (a prison song for baritone solo and men's chorus). Then, The American Men (patriotic post romantic) would pay homage to our troops. For a little "down home" country music, I'd pick The Rustler's Daughter (an opera in one thirty-second of an act). Fianlly, I'd do Annabel Lee a contemporary setting of the poem by Edgar Alan Poe, for French horn and TTBB. My wager is that of all those pieces, the latter would be most appreciated by your audience. My point is, like anything else, there is good contemporary music and then there is...
on January 22, 2012 10:20pm
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Dear fellow composers here: I recall what Christopher Marshall was saying- that ChoralNet used to have a slightly informal rule that living composers could only post a "self-serving" entry about once a year. That seemed pretty restrictive to me, but that is simply the way things were for awhile. Now that things aren't so confined, I do think living composers could (hey, just a suggestion) temper their posts, which some might view as annoying advertisements, by something like this: 1) don't post constantly - it really does become annoying for us all- space things out a bit. I am now an established composer and I post something specifically about my pieces maybe 3-4 times a year here. You can of course do something different, but consider not bombarding everyone just about your music all the time. 2) make sure that not all of your posts are just about your music, show some knowledge of all the repertoire out there and respond when you truly have a great piece of rep to suggest that might be from a different era. Share any other expertise area you may have. 3) make the effort to recommend another living composer's piece, not just your own. I have done this a number of times when I knew of a well-crafted, strong piece by a friend that truly was a perfect fit for what someone was looking for. 4) Chillax and read Lee Barrow's post again and understand that all folks programming concerts have so many goals and needs for their group or program. No university choir should be singing music from only one era- so understand that only a certain number of 20th and/or 21st century pieces are going to be programmed per year by a responsible director of choral activities. But on a more positive side for you, realize that often a conductor actually has your piece in hand (whether published or an ms score you may have sent them) and they just haven't yet found the right program for it to fit on. But then one day there it is-- on a program! I can tell you from personal experience that this has happened repeatedly to me- so when that piece finally does show up on a well crafted program of a good to great choir- you have that satisfaction and also still the reminder that living composers need to learn patience as their careers evolve. The mantra for aspiring (struggling?) choral composers should be-- don't give up/have some patience/learn much more about the voice and the mechanics of singing/learn more about the mechanics of choral conducting so that your notation encourages natural agility and ease in conductor and singer/keep networking, but not schmoozing. And oh yeah, find great texts to set and keep challenging yourself to develop your own personal, amazing compositional voice. Believe me, there are countless conductors looking for new composers with a voice of their own. Write it and they will find you.
Paul Carey
on January 23, 2012 5:39am
Sorry for being off the original topic- but it doesn't hurt to discuss (somewhere) what I was commenting on. Now back to the original topic?
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