Kelly:  Mary Goetze had a trick that really worked.  She would say (in her falsetto or head voice or Minnie Mouse voice or whatever you want to call it), "this is my singing voice."  And then in chest voice, "And this is my play voice."  It really worked, and the kids caught on right away.

All the best,

John

Kelly,

 

Check out the George Bragg materials at the Univ of North Texas. He had the Texas Boy Choir for many years. He trained under Coleman Cooper founder of the Apollo Boy Choir. Cooper studied under William Finn who, in my opinion, wrote two of the best books on the choral conducting. They are rare but available.

Please seriously researcxh this aspect of vocal training; don't rely on rumor or second hand info. And never ask for "loud" from young voices.

 

Good Results to you,

 

EP

There are some children that have a physical problem.  There are children who develop a node on their vocal folds at an early age for mis-use or some other medical issue or they may have another vocal fold issue.  If I run across a child like you describe, I first determine if they can match pitch witin their limited range.  Then I ask them to do a siren on oo, from low to high--I have them do it with a small group so they have the support of others.  Another thing many children can do who don't always match pitch is sing 'yoo-hoo' (sol-mi) with sol being an octave above middle C.  If they can't do the yoo-hoo or the siren, I also listen to their speaking voice.  I occasionally find children that I send to the nurse to recommend a visit to a laryngologist.

 

Best wishes,

Eloise Porter

 

 

Some kids can do a tongue trill or a lip buzz in their upper range to help discover this part of their voice.  The airplane exercise - Ken Phillips - where you have them Buzz like an old fashioned airplance all the way to the top, then parachute out with a downward siren - is fun and may help some.  Helping them discover the power of their abs - and real belly breathing may help.  Lightening up is what they need.  If they are talking loudly most of the time, shouting too much, crying loudly, these are the 'norm' for their vocal folds.  And habits are hard to break!

I have a grandson with the issue you describe.  He has talked a lot and loud much of his life.  What some would call a 'vocal over-doer'.  It is really difficult to get him to find his head voice.  But he loves music and can match pitches within his limited range.  We have him taking piano lessons and violin lessons to give him an outlet for his musical heart.  We keep encouraging the quiet voice in speech and singing, but . . . 

 

Good luck with this.  It is good work and necessary work, but definitely not easy.  They need understanding and encouragement to keep them involved with music.

 

Kudos to you, Kelly, for meeting with these choristers early in the morning, and being so dedicated to research their issues!

Amen to Eloise and Linda!  Their answers are essentially what I was formulating mentally as I read your situation.

As a professional singer, voice teacher, choral director, and a mother of a singer, we have dealt with nodes, swollen chords, etc.

I would add that constant drainage from allergies can act to slightly still the voice, "forcing" the voice to push and cause these habits.  They may tell you they don't have allergies - they may have learned to ignore it.  "Bloodstream allergies" are hard to diagnose, because the symptoms show up about 6 hours later (give or take) than the ingestion of the allergens.  The culprits (allergens) can be dust, grasses, ragweed, foods such as fish, dairy, corn.   Also, acid reflux should be investigated.   While you wait for Mom to take them to the ENT/allergist, and the diagnosis, try this: At first, I would find a reading/speaking part they can do. (No, not to supplant the singing..)  "Out of respect for your [their] family schedule and time to memorize", call the parents in for a little positive conference.  ("I just want to be sure that there is enouigh time in your family routine for ___to practice his/her lines a lot.")  Really, your purpose is to listen to the Mom/Dad talk and determine how much you think is: 1. Family cultural - they just live constantly at a vocally intense level. (Sometimes interruptions are allowed in such families, causing more intensity as each speaker competes, etc.) If so, suggest the they choose to have some conversations that are consciously in the bird-voice; light and free.  Maybe a they can create a game where you lose points if you drop to the frog-voice.  Like the keep-the-balloon-in-the-air game., how long can we go?  An hour?  Four?  Most of a day?   This might begin to change the habit..  Firmly, with flat hand,  touching the area just under the lungs might remind them to energize the breath.  At the same time, gently touch the cheekbone.  Great method from Barbara Harlow in "You, the Singer" - Sing a song (anything - "My Country Tis" will do) and hold/cover various openings at different times while singing - close one nostril, one ear, both, then all.  Causes them to feel the sensation of resonance.  Also might alert them to clogged areas - more difficult to resonate.  Then you can say, "Send the air to your upper head/cheekbones for the "tingles"/resonance up there."

2. Could it be a genetic-physical phenomena?  I doubt it, but it's possible.  Hopefully the ENT will clarify.

"Runs in the family" ?  We might think so, but I recall a Jack LaLane program (TV fitness expert) where he responded to the statement that "fat runs in the family" (Not bringing up this issue here - I respect/love all sizes, shapes and colors!)  Just as an example - he took a look at the table of the "heaviness runs in the family"  - it was loaded with read meat, potatoes, cheese sauces...  you get the idea.  Anything can "run in the family" ...and may be genetic, habitual, or both.

And please, before you/the parent let any doctor cut off a "node/nodule" -  get a 2nd and 3rd opinion.  My College voice teacher (father of the  famous counter-tenor, David Daniels) might have had surgery ("career surgically removed" ;/ ) if the 3rd doctor had not said, "The center is not yet hardened.  Extensive vocal rest should do it."  (The first 2 docs would have cut.) After postponement of the show for weeks of vocal rest,  he successfully sang Tevye in Fiddler - and continued his career of opera, oratorio, art song singing and conducting. 

Best Wishes to you, your students, and your artistic process together!

--Lucy

Kids tend to pattern their voices after what they hear at home - hence the tendency of it running in families.  It, of course, could be allergies, or any other related dysfunction.

 

The one thing I use consistently is a "whoop".  Most young people have whooped at the various ball games and, in order to be a whoop, it's in head voice.  Most are surprised when they first get up there....I gradually move from the whoop to a more defined scalar pattern top down....

 

If it's is a cord dysfunction, they will probably get no sound at all in the whoop.

Thanks for the replies y'all...there is some good insight for me to think about. I don't mind keeping behavior and attitude problems out of the choir, but I sure hate to see a good kid that wants to be in there, but cant sing more than 4 notes. I may see how much of the music we are working on they can sing and let them join us, but tell them what to sing and what to leave out. Some of these kids with vocals issues are really great kids and I hate to see them struggle.

Never turn a good kid with a good attitude away from a training/beginning choir in elementary, middle or high school. Patience, encouragement, and creativity on your part will make the difference.

 

 Here's a fine article you should check out online in ACDA's online magazine, ChorTeach, at www.acda.org/publications/chorteach.   What Do You Teach?..... I Teach Kids!  by Katherine Kouns.  Winter 2011, Vol 3 #2.   

The author talks about accepting a boy in her choir that couldn't match pitch, but he had a great attitude and was a hard worker.  She worked with him, encouraged him, and a few years later he landed the lead in the HS musical and told his teacher he wanted to be a choral director like her--one that believed in kids!   It may take a year or more for some kids to begin matching pitches.  Rewrite the music (you aren't breaking copyright) and simplify it for the kids that struggle.

 

Terry

I am so glad I found this! I am currently doing vocal assessments for all of my P - 6 students and I have some just like Kelly described and I have been feeling completely lost as to how to help them or for me to clarify what the issue may be. Thank you

To echo and affirm the "always potential" theme - I remember Dawn Upshaw being interviewed on Garrison Keillor's show.   (For many yesars during the 80's and 90's, she was one of the world's most sought-after sopranos)  She shared that her M. S. Choral director told her she had no potential as a singer!

Also, Sue Ellen Page worked with her pitch-challenged son...end of story was, "He is now touring with the American Boy Choir."

Be careful to place the new children among others whose technique is really good, and have them really listen to the sound they make, with one hand on the ear.  They will realise what's going on and do some corrective thing.  But the woop-woop thing works really well also for my adults some of whom had never been allowed to sing before but have always loved to sing in private; positive peer-pressure works.  Do the woop with a parralel gesture which helps the pitch and takes the focus is off self-conscious criticism.

 

Work at having them imitate sounds around them, not just your voice.  Can they cluck like a chicken, can they make the sound of a squeaky door.   This then leads to the sirens that others have mentioned.  The idea I work at is to get the child to listen and imitate their environment, then imitate you.   Whimpering like a dog is particularly useful if the kid has a dog that whimpers.   Thank-you for making the effort to get kids matching at our level.  It gets harder the longer they sing incorrectly.  Consider sharing with us in the Choral leaders of Elementary School Children community here on ChoralNet.