As Cory said, it's up to you to figure out what kind of experience you'd want in your college education. Both of my graduate degrees were at U of M and I loved it, despite not being a resident student. If you want to be nearer a larger, metropolitan area like Detroit (I grew up there and recently moved away after 40+ years in the area) and all it has to offer, then U of M is your school. But if you want a smaller community with fewer "distractions" ;), then St. Olaf is for you. The most impressive statistic about St. Olaf is that something like 35% of the student body is involved in some performing ensemble. One of my high school choir kids is going to St. Olaf in the fall and is very geeked about it. Let us know your decision when you decide!

 

Craig

Hello Andrew:

 

best of luck in your college preparations.  Let me add to the good points already made:  it is not only the size of the school, but the student body.  Saint Olaf is an undergraduate-only school, while your studies/classes/ensembles at U of M are likely to include grad students. 

 

I am a Saint Olaf grad, and loved my time there.  I also appreciate the workshop time I have spent in Ann Arbor (not the same, of course, but I have an appreciation for the high quality of musical experience there).  You probably already know that one of Michigan's choral professors is an Ole... have you spoken with her?  

 

Northfield is surrounded by farms, but still very close to the Twin Cities - about as far as Ann Arbor is from downtown Detroit. One should also imagine what kind of studies you will do outside of the music building.  Saint Olaf offers (requires!) a real liberal arts course of study, with a top-notch musical education included.  Finally, from personal experience I highly recommend the music education program with Dr. Berger. The program provided me not only with tools to teach, but critical thinking to creatively address unforeseen challenges.

 

good luck!

 

Josh Nannestad

Hudson, MA

I think your own words are correct, Andrew.  After your visit to St. Olaf, I think your decision will be easier.  The admissions officer at my school reported that in a national survey, the number one factor in a student's choice of colleges was that it "felt right" when they visited the campus.  So I think after you've visited both campuses and have had time to reflect, one will "feel" right.  

 

The above comments are all excellent ones, and they're right: both U of M and St. Olaf are excellent schools for music, but the size and focus of the schools will contrast a lot.  (In my experience attending U of M, though, I tended to find the School of Music as being, in its own way, like it's own "liberal arts" school [although the focus was entirely on music, of course], in that this was the group of a few hundred students that became your small "school."  However, I was there for a master's program, so I didn't take courses from other departments, as you would as an undergraduate.  That would broaden the scope of the people you come into contact with.)  

 

It's nice that you're getting input from others, but in the end, trust your own instincts.  If you do, you'll make the choice that's right for you.  Good luck.

 

Chuck

 

 

Andrew:

 

You present a wonderful problem, but one that in retrospect I could easily solve for myself. I did my undergrad work at St. Olaf and Master's at a large urban school. I would definitely not recommend the reverse, if that were the case. My St. Olaf degree has stood the test of time and has always opened doors for me. I would recommend St. Olaf.

 

Warren

Hi Andrew,

 

I'm currently a voice and music ed major at the University of Michigan. Send me an email (SchechnerJ AT gmail.com) if you have any questions about our program or just want somebody to talk to.  I didn't apply to St. Olaf, but appied to a bunch of other music ed schools and so might be able to shed some light on what is important and what is not important in the decision process.

 

 

Let me also say that at Michigan we have one of the strongest choral conducting faculties in the country.  Dr. Blackstone has an international reputation for excellence in the choral domain and although you will probably not study conducting right under him, being able to interact with his conducting graduate students has, for me, been an invaluble resource.  Our new associate director of choral activies, Eugene Rogers, has brought a breath a fresh air to the choral department-- i'm currently in his conducting class and his pedogogy is fabulous.  He's made excellent progress with every single student this semester- which is really what you're looking for.  Michigan also has an incredibly open and welcoming spirit-- there is a healthy competition in the music school, but it is never cuthroat or malicious.  

 

 

Best

Jonny 

Andrew,

 

I am a graduate of St. Olaf (BM Music Ed) and Michigan State University (MM and DMA in Choral Conducting).  Because of these reasons there is only one choice St. Olaf!  But if you want a slightly more unbiased approach then I would suggest the following:

 

Both schools have excellent choral faculty and conducting faculty.

     When I was at St. Olaf I took 5 semesters of conducting courses taught by 4 different conductors.  I don't know if you would get that many opportunities to work with different conductors at UM. 

 

St. Olaf is a smaller school than UM and so there is a much better opportunity to get to know more of the faculty members and for them to get to know you.

 

St. Olaf only offers undergraduate degrees (there is a coordinated Mdiv degree with Luther Sem, but that doesn't count here) while UM has undergrad and graduate degrees.

     This means that at St. Olaf all of the faculty will be focused on your education and prepare you to go to a school like UM (or MSU) for graduate study.  Also this means that all of your classes will be taught by faculty at St. Olaf, while some of your classes, and choirs will be taught by graduate students at UM.

 

St. Olaf is in a rural community, but it is about as far from Minneapolis as UM is from Detroit.  (In my freshman year at St. Olaf I left campus only once to go into Northfield).  Because of the rural community everthing you need is on campus.  They have excellent work study and the campus is beautiful.

 

UM choirs sing amazing music and perform with the Detroit Symphony.  They also perform at conventions across the US.  St. Olaf choirs sing amazing music and perform with the Minnesota Orchestra.  They also tour the country and world on tours.  They also perform at conventions across the US.

 

Both school have good reputations, but I would ask both schools and your main professors if they like writing letters of recommendation.  Some professors are better than others at writing letters and going to bat for you when you apply for jobs after school. 

 

My suggestion is to find a place where you can invest your time and energy developing your musical skills, but also developing your social, spiritual, and emotional self.  As a member of the St. Olaf Choir I was able to have a strong religious experience as well as an excellent education.  I travelled across the US and got to tour Eastern Europe and New Zealand and Australia.  I counted when I was a senior at St. Olaf and realized that I sang for over 1/4 million people LIVE in concert.  It was a life changing and excellent experience.  I doubt that you will sing for more than 50,000 people LIVE in concert in your entire UM experience.

 

Go to St. Olaf work your butt off, and then go to the UM for your graduate degree.  Then you will have a outstanding pedigree and an education that if you work as hard as you can, will get you a foot into many doors.  Then the hardwork begins to prove yourself to the world.

 

Dr. Jason Thoms (Um Yah Yah '96)

I too  went to St. Olaf and then went on to a larger university for my advanced degrees.  (University of Southeran California, Los Angeles).  I value and treasure both experiences.  Having taught at a state university, I know that there is no one size that fits all.  The advice above that you go visit the St Olaf campus is a good one.  The music department there is outstanding, and will prepare you for any graduate institution in the country or beyond.  But it has to be what you want, and whether you resonate with the environment of the campus (which is gorgeous, by the way!).  There really is no "wrong" choice for you - only what  meets your needs .  Good luck in your upcoming choices.  Stephen Fuller

p.s.  Northfield, where St. Olaf is, is close to the Twin Cities, which has one of the most vibrant arts communities in the country.  You are by no means in complete isolation there.